| Subject: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 12:23:41 PM |
| From: "CdLSRN" [Email Address Protection] |
Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows Vista? |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 12:42:47 PM |
| From: "Gene Marz" [Email Address Protection] |
I use the AVG free version at home. http://free.avg.com/ww.download-avg-anti-virus-free-edition "CdLSRN" <NOspam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uCTtmqfDJHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows > Vista? |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 12:48:34 PM |
| From: Paul Montgomery [Email Address Protection] |
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:23:41 -0400, "CdLSRN" <NOspam@nospam.com> wrote: >Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows >Vista? This subject has been trampled to death hundreds of times. Pick one. Use it for a while. Pick another. Use IT for a while. Choose whichever one you like best. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 12:42:54 PM |
| From: Ghostintheshell [Email Address Protection] |
CdLSRN wrote the following in news:uCTtmqfDJHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl in microsoft.public.windows.vista.general at Wed 03 Sep 2008 12:23:41p > Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for > Windows Vista? http://free.avg.com/ I run Vista and I use this. It's freeware. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 1:23:01 PM |
| From: "Carey Frisch [MVP]" [Email Address Protection] |
Install Windows OneCare, and you'll not have to worry about those issues. You can try it FREE for ninety (90) days. This is a brand new version and is very robust! Uses very little system resources! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/default.htm With the excellent Windows OneCare package, there is no need to install a multitude of different security software. OneCare includes: -- An excellent antivirus application -- An excellent firewall application -- An excellent antispyware application -- Automatic system tune-ups -- Automatic hard drive defrag -- Checks for updates to be sure they are installed -- Schedules automatic backups of important files -- New version 2.5 just released - designed to work exceptionally well with Windows Vista & XP. -- All-in-one convenient, easy to install application On sale at Newegg for only $19.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116442 -- Carey Frisch Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience - Windows Vista Enthusiast --------------------------------------------------------------- "CdLSRN" <NOspam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uCTtmqfDJHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows Vista? |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 1:50:33 PM |
| From: "Richard G. Harper" [Email Address Protection] |
AVG Free. My favorite choice and most frequent recommendation. -- Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com * NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/ * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups * The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/ "CdLSRN" <NOspam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uCTtmqfDJHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows > Vista? |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 4:06:40 PM |
| From: "CdLSRN" [Email Address Protection] |
Thank you all. I also have used it successfully. I just needed to document for my skeptical son. I will forward your answers to him. "Richard G. Harper" <rgharper@email.com> wrote in message news:ewnu2agDJHA.1008@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > AVG Free. My favorite choice and most frequent recommendation. > > -- > Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com > * NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/ > * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups > * The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/ > > > "CdLSRN" <NOspam@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:uCTtmqfDJHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows >> Vista? > |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 4:39:07 PM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
Hi, Yes AVG Free is a decent antivirus- but it is only that - if you want the rootkit detector, you have to pay for it - even AVG emphasise how basic the protection it offers is. When is the last time you heard of anyone getting a virus ? The bigger threats now are rootkits, worms , trojans..... and while Windows Defender offers pretty decent protection, no single app. can guarantee to detect everything - it makes sense to have another app. that covers these as well. I use Avast because it covers them all including antivirus, offers real time resident protection, and updates every 4 hours. I don't know why they offer such a complete product free, as there's no need for a home user to get the paid version - check Preston Gralla's review for pcworld : 'avast! Home Edition | Security Download | PC World' (http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,64535/description.html) SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 5:18:38 PM |
| From: "Synapse Syndrome" [Email Address Protection] |
"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message news:3CFC54C6-C57E-481A-B382-3DF6C5A10500@microsoft.com... > Install Windows OneCare, and you'll not have to > worry about those issues. You can try it FREE > for ninety (90) days. This is a brand new version > and is very robust! Uses very little system resources! > http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/default.htm > > With the excellent Windows OneCare package, there is > no need to install a multitude of different security software. > > OneCare includes: > > -- An excellent antivirus application > -- An excellent firewall application > -- An excellent antispyware application > -- Automatic system tune-ups > -- Automatic hard drive defrag > -- Checks for updates to be sure they are installed > -- Schedules automatic backups of important files > -- New version 2.5 just released - designed to work > exceptionally well with Windows Vista & XP. > -- All-in-one convenient, easy to install application > > On sale at Newegg for only $19.99 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116442 STOP SPAMMING ss. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 5:26:49 PM |
| From: "Synapse Syndrome" [Email Address Protection] |
"Richard G. Harper" <rgharper@email.com> wrote in message news:ewnu2agDJHA.1008@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > AVG Free. My favorite choice and most frequent recommendation. > In Europe, most reports and reviews rate Avira AntiVir (German) over FreeAVG (Czech) more recently. It is a lot more effective - even more so, in some cases, than other very highly rated AVs, like NOD32 (Slovakian), which is what I use. It does have a very annoying upgrade reminder in the free version, but you can disable the running of the notify.exe reminder in Security Policy. ss. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 5:29:05 PM |
| From: "Synapse Syndrome" [Email Address Protection] |
"Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message news:%23GazXSiDJHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > Consider this also: > > Avira AntiVir Personal - FREE Antivirus > http://www.free-av.com/ > (The free version won't scan your emails.) Yes, that has been getting far better reviews than AVG over the last couple of years. You can stop the annoying upgrade notification in Security Policy. ss. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 9:41:28 PM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 01:29:05 +0100, Synapse Syndrome wrote: > "Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message > news:%23GazXSiDJHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> >> Consider this also: >> >> Avira AntiVir Personal - FREE Antivirus >> http://www.free-av.com/ >> (The free version won't scan your emails.) > > > Yes, that has been getting far better reviews than AVG over the last couple > of years. You can stop the annoying upgrade notification in Security > Policy. > And how did you proceed using S/P (step-by-step) please? |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 10:06:51 PM |
| From: "Synapse Syndrome" [Email Address Protection] |
"Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message news:uIqK%23hkDJHA.3432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> >>> Consider this also: >>> >>> Avira AntiVir Personal - FREE Antivirus >>> http://www.free-av.com/ >>> (The free version won't scan your emails.) >> >> >> Yes, that has been getting far better reviews than AVG over the last >> couple >> of years. You can stop the annoying upgrade notification in Security >> Policy. >> > And how did you proceed using S/P (step-by-step) please? Sorry if I have got your hopes up if you are running a Home version of Vista. If you are not, you run secpol.msc from an elevated command prompt, right click Software Restrictions and make new policies, and add the notify.exe in the AntiVir program folder to a new policy in Additional Rules, and make it Disallowed. It may be possible to add this directly to the registry some way, if you have a Home version. I suggest searching on Google, using search terms like "Avira AntiVir Disable notify.exe Vista Home" to find out for sure. ss. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 10:23:04 PM |
| From: Paul Montgomery [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:41:28 +0700, Kayman <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote: >On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 01:29:05 +0100, Synapse Syndrome wrote: > >> "Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message >> news:%23GazXSiDJHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> >>> Consider this also: >>> >>> Avira AntiVir Personal - FREE Antivirus >>> http://www.free-av.com/ >>> (The free version won't scan your emails.) >> >> >> Yes, that has been getting far better reviews than AVG over the last couple >> of years. You can stop the annoying upgrade notification in Security >> Policy. >> >And how did you proceed using S/P (step-by-step) please? http://www.elitekiller.com/files/disable_antivir_nag.htm |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 10:25:13 PM |
| From: "Synapse Syndrome" [Email Address Protection] |
"Paul Montgomery" <i.m.nonnymous@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message news:a5sub4h650s79hj3aqi2d4i1h0d5uurq0c@4ax.com... >>>> >>>> Consider this also: >>>> >>>> Avira AntiVir Personal - FREE Antivirus >>>> http://www.free-av.com/ >>>> (The free version won't scan your emails.) >>> >>> >>> Yes, that has been getting far better reviews than AVG over the last >>> couple >>> of years. You can stop the annoying upgrade notification in Security >>> Policy. >>> >>And how did you proceed using S/P (step-by-step) please? > > http://www.elitekiller.com/files/disable_antivir_nag.htm Nice find. ss. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/3/2008 11:51:39 PM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:23:41 -0400, CdLSRN wrote: > Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows > Vista? Though you didn't ask for, it's been suggested using Windows OneCare which is trial/payware. The OneCare package includes various additional software and it is suggested that there is no need to install a multitude of different security software, fair enough. So, let's examine this package from a (non-expert) users point-of-view and if Windows OneCare represents real $ value for the average user. OneCare includes: -- An excellent antivirus application. I understand that that the new version of this (OneCare) AV application has changed for the better and the catchrate has improved significantly. It is debatable however if it is significantly better compared to good quality free-ware application such as Avira's AntiVir or Avast. Even if it is an equally good application, you'd still have to fork out $'s. -- An excellent firewall application. An excellent firewall application is already included in Vista. So, why would one want to pay for something which comes free in the first place? -- An excellent antispyware application. An antispyware (A-S) application is already included in Vista. So, why would one want to pay for something which comes free in the first place? Add Free SAS and you're good as gold. -- Automatic system tune-ups. Why I don�t use registry cleaners! http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html IMO, a safer option is to use CCleaner ignoring the registry scanning/fixing option followed by using NTREGOPT. -- Automatic hard drive defrag. A HDD defragmentation utility is already included in Vista which could be configured (using Scheduled Tasks) to scan at predetermined times. There are a few freeware defrag tools available which, the best to my knowledge, outperform the in-build version. So, why would one want to pay for something which comes free in the first place? -- Checks for updates to be sure they are installed. Aside from Using the free Windows Update in Windows Vista, Secunia Personal Software Inspector, Belarc and M/S Security Baseline Analyzer can assist also. So, why would one want to pay for something which comes free in the first place? -- Schedules automatic backups of important files. Backup and Restore Center is an in-build version and comes free with the Vista operating system. So, why would one want to pay for something which comes free in the first place? BTW, some users are impressed with Cobian Backup-Free. -- New version 2.5 just released - designed to work exceptionally well with Windows Vista & XP. One would hope that this is the case, after all, it's a MSFT product! Selective, good-quality freeware applications are working like a charm as well! -- All-in-one convenient, easy to install application. So are selective, good-quality freeware applications/utilities. -- On sale at Newegg for only $19.99 If I were in the spending mood and were looking for a worthwhile addition to my OS I'd find another $30.- and purchase Acronis. Well, what's the OneCare package all about? I haven't got the foggiest idea! Rationale for my opinion :) It is not unusual that in Multi National Organizations such as MSFT the Section Heads of the Commercial Department and the Program Engineers (Operating Department), are having conflicting opinions as they work for different goals. The Program Engineers are the pragmatic type, they develop things, they know things. They have to demonstrate high integrity in order to produce high quality software. The Advertising People know how to sell and push things. They mostly walk on a fine line but cross it frequently for the sake of the $ almighty and in the name of the share holders. The nature of their job prevents them to be moral and ethical. The goals of the Commercial Dept. are not necessarily in the best interest for the end user. Would MSFT recommend the use of registry cleaners if Dr. Mark Russinovich and Ed Bott had a say? I don't think so! Would MSFT have included these lame additions to their Windows Life OneCare application if their program engineers had a say? I don't think so! |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 12:14:39 AM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 06:06:51 +0100, Synapse Syndrome wrote: > "Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message > news:uIqK%23hkDJHA.3432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> >>>> Consider this also: >>>> >>>> Avira AntiVir Personal - FREE Antivirus >>>> http://www.free-av.com/ >>>> (The free version won't scan your emails.) >>> >>> >>> Yes, that has been getting far better reviews than AVG over the last >>> couple >>> of years. You can stop the annoying upgrade notification in Security >>> Policy. >>> >> And how did you proceed using S/P (step-by-step) please? > > Sorry if I have got your hopes up if you are running a Home version of > Vista. > > If you are not, you run secpol.msc from an elevated command prompt, right > click Software Restrictions and make new policies, and add the notify.exe in > the AntiVir program folder to a new policy in Additional Rules, and make it > Disallowed. > > It may be possible to add this directly to the registry some way, if you > have a Home version. I suggest searching on Google, using search terms like > "Avira AntiVir Disable notify.exe Vista Home" to find out for sure. Thanks. I just was curious how you used the Security Policy to disable the nag screen. The AntiVir notification pop-up does not bother me at all; I can live with it (it's a personal thing I guess :-) ). |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 5:10:18 AM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
Hi, A big difference between Vista's free Firewall and the one included in Onecare is that it has easily configured outbound control - very important to stop malware dialling out. *Vista's built in firewall has all outbound connections enabled by default* - this is dangerous. Check it by going to 'www.grc.com' (http://www.grc.com) click the tab that says freeware, then security, then leaktest, download and run it - it will dial out unhindered. How do you stop this? The best way is to use the free Vista Firewall Control ( available in 32 and 64 bit versions ) 'www.shinx-soft.com/Vista' (http://www.shinx-soft.com/Vista) It's a small 2mb app that sits in your Notification area . When an app tries to access the net, it asks if you want to enable or disable, then adjusts Vista's firewall for you. It will pop up a lot when first installed as it hasn't seen your apps. before, but it will remember and you can change the settings later if you like. Alternatively, get a 3rd party Firewall Zone Alarm (32 bit only) or Comodo ( 32 and 64 bit versions ) 'www.comodo.com' (http://www.comodo.com) Hope this helps SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 5:20:26 AM |
| From: Paul Montgomery [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:10:18 -0500, SIW2 <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote: >A big difference between Vista's free Firewall and the one included in >Onecare is that it has easily configured outbound control - very >important to stop malware dialling out. Overrated. Keeping it out is WAY more important. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 6:15:31 AM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:10:18 -0500, SIW2 wrote: > Hi, > > A big difference between Vista's free Firewall and the one included in > Onecare is that it has easily configured outbound control The in-build version can just as easily configured > - very important to stop malware dialling out. Now that's debatable. Malware must be stopped at the front door and *not* allowed to run believing that its behavior can be somehow "controlled". The only reasonable way to deal with malware is to prevent it from being run in the first place. That's what AV software or Windows' System Restriction Policies are doing. And what 3rd party Personal Firewalls fail to do! Deconstructing Common Security Myths. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc160979.aspx Scroll down to: "Myth: Host-Based Firewalls Must Filter Outbound Traffic to be Safe." > *Vista's built in firewall has all outbound connections enabled by > default* - this is dangerous. Check it by going to 'www.grc.com' > (http://www.grc.com) click the tab that says freeware, then security, > then leaktest, download and run it - it will dial out unhindered. You read the wrong literature :-) Exploring The Windows Firewall. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx "If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what you ask? The answer: you can’t. Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall." Tap into the Vista firewall's advanced configuration features http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877-6098592.html "...once you discover the secret of accessing its advanced configuration settings via the MMC snap-in, you'll find it to be far more configurable and functional. At last, Windows comes with a sophisticated personal firewall that can be used to set up outbound rules as well as inbound, with the ability to customize rules to fit your precise needs." Managing the Windows Vista Firewall http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc510323.aspx > How do you stop this? The best way is to use the free Vista Firewall > Control > ( available in 32 and 64 bit versions ) 'www.shinx-soft.com/Vista' > (http://www.shinx-soft.com/Vista) Vista Firewall Control (Free versions available). Protects your applications from undesirable network incoming and outgoing activity, controls applications internet access. http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/ The free version may be all you need, check the comparisons under the "Download and Buy" link. > Alternatively, get a 3rd party Firewall Zone Alarm (32 bit only) or > Comodo ( 32 and 64 bit versions ) 'www.comodo.com' > (http://www.comodo.com) You've gotta be kidding! "Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil. http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html PFW Criticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_firewall#Criticisms Jesper's Blogs- At Least This Snake Oil Is Free. http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx Windows Firewall: the best new security feature in Vista? http://blogs.technet.com/jesper_johansson/archive/2006/05/01/426921.aspx |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 8:01:19 AM |
| From: "John Barnett MVP" [Email Address Protection] |
While I do like Avast I find that the user interface is rather poor; for that reason when anyone asks me to recommend a free anti virus my first recommendation is AVG (http://free.grisoft.com). -- -- John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows Desktop Experience Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org Web: http://www.silversurferguide.org The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post.. "CdLSRN" <NOspam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uCTtmqfDJHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Besides Avast is there another free antivirus that is better? for Windows > Vista? |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 2:57:29 PM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
Hi John, Like your website SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 6:12:21 PM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:01:19 +0100, John Barnett MVP wrote: > While I do like Avast.... Slightly OT, but your signature compels me to inquire about your advice concerning ZA. Re: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org/lifesavers.htm In particular: Zone Alarm "Perhaps one of the best know of the firewall software. Of course, Windows XP does contain it's own firewall but, unfortunately, it is not too user friendly." Please elaborate on the user "unfriendly" WinXP firewall application. "Therefore Zone Alarm is a better bet." Please provide technical reasons to support this statement. "It is highly recommended and comes in a free version as well as a pay version. The pay version has more 'qualities' but, for general use, the free version is well worth having." I can't believe this coming from an associate expert (MVP)! Did you ever come across Jesper M. Johansson and/or Steve Riley of MSFT? What were you thinking? Though your association with ZA may be the driving factor for this. If the tie-up has ceased you may wish to do some research and consequently review your recommendation in order to provide real value advice for the average homeuser in relation to Internet Security in particular the usage of PFW's. BTW, even *commercially dependent* "expert" gurus such as Steve Gibson of Gibson's Research Corporation and (Ask) Leo Notenboom are now opposing your view as is the head of software engineers of Sunbelt (makers of the Kerio PFW). |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/4/2008 6:29:56 PM |
| From: Paul Montgomery [Email Address Protection] |
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 08:12:21 +0700, Kayman <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote: >BTW, even *commercially dependent* "expert" gurus such as Steve Gibson of >Gibson's Research Corporation and (Ask) Leo Notenboom are now opposing your >view as is the head of software engineers of Sunbelt (makers of the Kerio >PFW). Don't know about Notenboom's credentials, but Gibson has been thoroughly discredited by anyone of any consequence. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/5/2008 2:31:53 AM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:29:56 -0500, Paul Montgomery wrote: > On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 08:12:21 +0700, Kayman > <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote: > >>BTW, even *commercially dependent* "expert" gurus such as Steve Gibson of >>Gibson's Research Corporation and (Ask) Leo Notenboom are now opposing your >>view as is the head of software engineers of Sunbelt (makers of the Kerio >>PFW). > > Don't know about Notenboom's credentials, but Gibson has been > thoroughly discredited by anyone of any consequence. Yes, the Gibson saga is well known! The point I am trying to make is that he (Steve Gibson of Gibsons Research Corp.) is still dependent on advertisement (Commercial Sponsors) and selling his products. An avenue of income no more I'd suppose. Firewall LeakTesting. Excerpts: Leo Laporte: "So the leaktest is kind of pointless." Steve Gibson: "Well,yes,... Leo: "So are you saying that there's no point in doing a leaktest anymore?" Steve: "Well, it's why I have not taken the trouble to update mine, because you..." Leo: "You can't test enough". Steve: "Well, yeah. Leo: "Right. Very interesting stuff. I guess that - my sense is, if you can't test for leaks, a software-based firewall is kind of essentially worthless." On August 07, 2007, the software engineers/programmers of Sunbelt Software (the makers of Sunbelt Personal Firewall) have raised reservations about the usefulness of outbound protection provided by personal firewalls (PFW) in cases where malware has already executed and describe it as a questionable basis on which to build a *security* assessment. Also, a pointed response from Jesper M. Johansson PhD to (denigrating) statements about how the WindowsXP firewall does not provide outbound filtering (May 01, 2006). [quote] Any outbound host-based firewall filtering in WindowsXP is really just meaningless as a *security*...] [unquote] --and-- in TechNet Magazine (June 2008). [quote] ....outbound filtering will stop the worm from infecting other systems or will stop the attacker from communicating out. This is *not* true. [unquote] Jesper M. Johansson PhD Senior Security Strategist in the Security Technology Unit at MSFT and is a Software Architect working on security software and is a contributing editor to TechNet Magazine. He holds a PhD in Management Information Systems, has more than 20 years experience in security, and is a Microsoft MVP in Enterprise Security. Jesper's Blog http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/default.aspx And finally, a rational appraisal by Steve Riley concerning *security* related 3rd party software applications (August 06, 2008). [quote] In general, it's a bad idea to use third-party "replacements" for critical parts of the operating system. While I'll never claim that our software is bug-free, I feel pretty certain that some shady no-charge download that tries to replace or improve on some aspect of the security subsystem hasn't gone through any kind of testing like we do: the SDL, automated fuzz and penetration testing, and threat modeling. My advice: *stay away from stuff like this.* [unquote] Steve Riley in a Senior Security Strategist with Microsoft steve.riley@microsoft.com http://blogs.technet.com/steriley http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com There are many more statements like this floating around from esteemed internet security experts as are various publications in relation to 3rd party PFW's. Unfortunately these articles/publications don't reach the average homeuser easily as they're not commercially sponsored. But then again, there's always Google :-) BTW, Jesper and Steve sometimes hang out here and other MS ng's. |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/5/2008 8:57:35 AM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
Hi Kayman, Thanks for the info. Karl Levinson's reply at the bottom of this link you supplied makes sense to me 'At Least This Snake Oil Is Free - Jesper's Blog' (http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx) SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/5/2008 9:04:23 AM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
]Hi Kayman, Thanks for the info. Karl Levinson's reply at the bottom of this link you supplied makes sense to me 'At Least This Snake Oil Is Free - Jesper's Blog' (http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx) "... As you point out near the end of the post, outbound host-based firewall filtering is NOT worthless.... Such filtering is not 100% effective, but neither are antivirus or firewalls or most every other countermeasure. Such filtering 1) raises the bar that malware must surpass and 2) offers an opportunity for the OS to detect and alert when the firewall is modified or bypassed in certain ways, even if it cannot prevent it. " SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/5/2008 9:42:48 AM |
| From: "John Barnett MVP" [Email Address Protection] |
Thank you SIW2; I'm glad you liked it. -- -- John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows Desktop Experience Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org Web: http://www.silversurferguide.org The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post.. "SIW2" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message news:212e0d2ae500d4f5d23db500b3b1eff7@nntp-gateway.com... > > Hi John, > > Like your website > > SIW2 > > > -- > SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/6/2008 1:12:36 AM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:04:23 -0500, SIW2 wrote: > ]Hi Kayman, Thanks for the info. > > > > Karl Levinson's reply at the bottom of this link you supplied makes > sense to me > > 'At Least This Snake Oil Is Free - Jesper's Blog' > (http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx) > > "... As you point out near the end of the post, outbound host-based > firewall filtering is NOT worthless.... Such filtering is not 100% > effective, but neither are antivirus or firewalls or most every other > countermeasure. Such filtering 1) raises the bar that malware must > surpass and 2) offers an opportunity for the OS to detect and alert when > the firewall is modified or bypassed in certain ways, even if it cannot > prevent it. " Now compare the hype on websites from the makers of 3rd party software PFW's such as ZA, Sunbelt etc., analyze the content and compare what Jesper has written. Then re-examine what KL said. Educational Reading: Managing the Windows Vista Firewall http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc510323.aspx "Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil. http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html PFW Criticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_firewall#Criticisms |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/6/2008 7:05:38 AM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
Hi, I understand the point you are making entirely. But plenty of people out there i.e. tens of millions - just get a cheap laptop ond go online largely so they can find silly videos and poke each other. Not likely they would be able to find this link, let alone implement it 'Security: Managing the Windows Vista Firewall' (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc510323.aspx) Seems to me that what John Barnett and the PCWorld writers and many other knowledgeable folk are doing -is taking a real world approach - they are suggesting things most people will actually use. SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/6/2008 6:34:21 PM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 09:05:38 -0500, SIW2 wrote: > Hi, > I understand the point you are making entirely. I only echo the point Internet Security experts are making (I am *not* one of them, though I have a pretty good analytical mind)! > But plenty of people out there i.e. tens of millions - just get a cheap > laptop ond go online largely so they can find silly videos and poke each > other. And *your* point is? Are you saying that (uneducated) users who don't practice Safe-Hex and accessing questionable websites will be safed by horribly broken and badly coded software such as the ZA PFW? HINT: No bloody software on this Planet will protect the OS when browsing irresponsible - education is the key! That's where the makers of these Phony-Baloney take advantage of the ignorant users! > Not likely they would be able to find this link, let alone implement it > 'Security: Managing the Windows Vista Firewall' > (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc510323.aspx) Precisely, you are right here (though I disagree with the implementation)! It is unfortunate that most experts really aren't being paid to address the audience this information needs to reach home users. Alas the articles authored by these esteemed are are not as widely distributed as the hype created by the makers of 3rd party PSW's. Ignorance is never an excuse nor is it a defensible position! > Seems to me that what John Barnett and the PCWorld writers and many > other knowledgeable folk are doing -is taking a real world approach Seems to me that you're pretty na�ve. Fact is that these knowledgeable folk have or have had an affiliation (commercial agreement) with one or more software manufacturer. Their writings are biased, driven by the (advertisement) dollar almighty! They are being paid (or have been paid) by companies whose revenues depend on those outbound-traffic monitoring firewalls! > they are suggesting things most people will actually use. Because marketing trumps security. Users pay attention to ads and are blinded by all the hype! Now, since you're claiming to comprehend the issue, research it more diligently as advertisement driven and sponsored publications should be taken with a ton of salt, and spread the word! You do yourself and fellow homeusers a great service! Remember, knowledge serves of no purpose if you can't comprehend. Good luck :-) |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/7/2008 8:52:53 AM |
| From: "John Barnett MVP" [Email Address Protection] |
"Seems to me that you're pretty na�ve. Fact is that these knowledgeable folk have or have had an affiliation (commercial agreement) with one or more software manufacturer. Their writings are biased, driven by the (advertisement) dollar almighty! They are being paid (or have been paid) by companies whose revenues depend on those outbound-traffic monitoring firewalls!" I'm sorry Kayman but I take offence at your implication in the above statement. I cannot answer for other authors, but my writing is not 'biased' in any way shape or form. It is 'not' driven by advertising and I am 'not' paid by any company to advertise/endorse their products. The recommendations made on my website are 'my' recommendations based on software I have used. Neither Microsoft, Zone Alarm, or any other software developing company has any influence over what I recommend or, for that matter, my opinion in any review I write regarding the software. I certainly 'don't' allow software companies to 'pull my strings' neither do I have to explain to people why and for what reason I have recommended a particular product! -- -- John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows Desktop Experience Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org Web: http://www.silversurferguide.org The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post.. "Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message news:OEGWXnIEJHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 09:05:38 -0500, SIW2 wrote: > >> Hi, >> I understand the point you are making entirely. > > I only echo the point Internet Security experts are making (I am *not* one > of them, though I have a pretty good analytical mind)! > >> But plenty of people out there i.e. tens of millions - just get a cheap >> laptop ond go online largely so they can find silly videos and poke each >> other. > > And *your* point is? Are you saying that (uneducated) users who don't > practice Safe-Hex and accessing questionable websites will be safed by > horribly broken and badly coded software such as the ZA PFW? > HINT: No bloody software on this Planet will protect the OS when browsing > irresponsible - education is the key! That's where the makers of these > Phony-Baloney take advantage of the ignorant users! > >> Not likely they would be able to find this link, let alone implement it >> 'Security: Managing the Windows Vista Firewall' >> (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc510323.aspx) > > Precisely, you are right here (though I disagree with the implementation)! > It is unfortunate that most experts really aren't being paid to address > the > audience this information needs to reach home users. Alas the articles > authored by these esteemed are are not as widely distributed as the hype > created by the makers of 3rd party PSW's. > Ignorance is never an excuse nor is it a defensible position! > >> Seems to me that what John Barnett and the PCWorld writers and many >> other knowledgeable folk are doing -is taking a real world approach > > Seems to me that you're pretty na�ve. > Fact is that these knowledgeable folk have or have had an affiliation > (commercial agreement) with one or more software manufacturer. Their > writings are biased, driven by the (advertisement) dollar almighty! They > are being paid (or have been paid) by companies whose revenues depend on > those outbound-traffic monitoring firewalls! > >> they are suggesting things most people will actually use. > > Because marketing trumps security. Users pay attention to ads and are > blinded by all the hype! > > Now, since you're claiming to comprehend the issue, research it more > diligently as advertisement driven and sponsored publications should be > taken with a ton of salt, and spread the word! You do yourself and fellow > homeusers a great service! > Remember, knowledge serves of no purpose if you can't comprehend. > > Good luck :-) > |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/7/2008 10:31:33 AM |
| From: SIW2 [Email Address Protection] |
Understanding your point is not the same as agreeing with it. Your point being that you have decided on a position which you seem to wish to pursue with fervour. SIW2 -- SIW2 |
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| Subject: Re: anti virus |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general |
| Date: 9/8/2008 2:04:52 AM |
| From: Kayman [Email Address Protection] |
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 16:52:53 +0100, John Barnett MVP wrote: > "Seems to me that you're pretty na�ve. > Fact is that these knowledgeable folk have or have had an affiliation > (commercial agreement) with one or more software manufacturer. Their > writings are biased, driven by the (advertisement) dollar almighty! They > are being paid (or have been paid) by companies whose revenues depend on > those outbound-traffic monitoring firewalls!" > > I'm sorry Kayman but I take offence at your implication in the above > statement. I cannot answer for other authors, but my writing is not 'biased' > in any way shape or form. It is 'not' driven by advertising and I am 'not' > paid by any company to advertise/endorse their products. The recommendations > made on my website are 'my' recommendations based on software I have used. > Neither Microsoft, Zone Alarm, or any other software developing company has > any influence over what I recommend or, for that matter, my opinion in any > review I write regarding the software. I certainly 'don't' allow software > companies to 'pull my strings' neither do I have to explain to people why > and for what reason I have recommended a particular product! Well John, I consider myself as a reasonable poster and since you have added to your signature three websites you'd expect receiving criticism and/or comments in relation to the content of these sites. I chose only one (1) item which is your recommendation to install ZA as a preference to the in-build version of the NT operating systems. Yes, though I didn't mention your name specifically, I suggested that your comment on one of your websites is biased and driven by commercial motives; Admittedly, I could have been using a more diplomatically tone...offending you personally was and is not my intention! You have step-back and try to see it from the aspect of a (fairly informed) reader. I know for a fact that nowadays it is very common receiving kick-backs in any shape or form for favorable reporting of commercial products. It is also a fact that most of the computer magazines rely on advertisement as they couldn't survive with out it. For example, if an editor of a magazine would report unfavorably of a certain product and still expect receiving advertisement revenue from the same manufacturer would just be too unrealistic. One can easily conclude they have an agenda set. You shouldn't take offense as I am sure that you as a journalist are aware of this (besides journos supposed to have a 'thick skin'). Now, since you're flatly refuse to give *technical security* reasons as to why ZA is a better bet and the xp version is user unfriendly my original suggestion seems to me not too far stretched. [quote] ....testing software for Microsoft and a few other software manufacture's such as Zone Labs... [unquote] [quote] Zone Alarm ..... Windows XP does contain it's own firewall but, unfortunately, it is not too user friendly. Therefore Zone Alarm is a better bet. It is highly recommended and comes in a free version as well as a pay version. The pay version has more 'qualities' but, for general use, the free version is well worth having. [unquote] I would think that most of the MVP's are familiar with the writings authored by Jesper M. Johansson PhD and/or Steve Riley. If you haven't read their highly educational publications in relation to software firewalls than you may wish to consider doing so. Both Jesper and Steve sometimes hang out in microsoft.public.security.virus and/or microsoft.public.windows.vista.security ng's; They are also reachable by e-mail. |
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