| Subject: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/8/2008 3:38:11 PM |
| From: john p murphy [Email Address Protection] |
Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/9/2008 7:46:58 AM |
| From: "GrahamH" [Email Address Protection] |
Hi, Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and formatting XP didnt like it. There is i believe something different in the structure of Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not be backward compatible, at least with 3rd party partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the difference is but a search on the web will find it. I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in which case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and also system files. This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each other. I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format ntfs using paragon hard disk manager. I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. I also created on the second primary an extended partition and logical drive and installed XP again for testing software purposes. So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. Good luck Graham.... > > "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... > Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, > and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using > vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was > just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing > copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this > message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and > again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails > miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the > part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, > and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and > just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious > about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had > problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what > the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with > this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/9/2008 11:21:34 AM |
| From: "Timothy Daniels" [Email Address Protection] |
Here's an explanation of the problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854 Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro: http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529 *TimDaniels* "GrahamH" wrote: > Hi, > Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and > formatting XP didnt like it. There is i believe something different > in the structure of Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not > be backward compatible, at least with 3rd party partitoning > software. Cant rememeber what the difference is but a search > on the web will find it. I guess you installed XP on an extended > partition/logical drive in which case the mbr would have been > overwritten by the o/s and also system files. This is the way i > did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each other. > > I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and > the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format > ntfs using paragon hard disk manager. > I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. > Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. > I also created on the second primary an extended partition and > logical drive and installed XP again for testing software purposes. > So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. > You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select > and make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. > > Good luck > Graham.... >> >> > > "john p murphy" wrote: >> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, >> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using >> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was >> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing >> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this >> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and >> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the >> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, >> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and >> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious >> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what >> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL > |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/9/2008 11:24:56 AM |
| From: "Timothy Daniels" [Email Address Protection] |
Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes:: On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted). Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will Vista's Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or you can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files are are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php . Here's some user documentation: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm (For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver auto- matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the defaults.) Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can cause problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions. *TimDaniels* "GrahamH" <graham@harrison3951.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:u3avK7i%23IHA.3344@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Hi, > Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and formatting XP > didnt like it. There is i believe something different in the structure of > Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not be backward compatible, at > least with 3rd party partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the difference > is but a search on the web will find it. > I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in which case > the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and also system files. > This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each other. > > I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and the way i did it > was to create two Primary partitions and format ntfs using paragon hard disk > manager. > I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. > Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. > I also created on the second primary an extended partition and logical drive > and installed XP again for testing software purposes. > So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. > You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and make active > either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. > > Good luck > Graham.... >> >> > > "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, >> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using >> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was >> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing >> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this >> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and >> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the >> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, >> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and >> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious >> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what >> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL > |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/10/2008 6:23:33 AM |
| From: jpmurph1 [Email Address Protection] |
Thanks all so much now i can sleep LOL but my first thought was what graham said, xp just didnt like what vista did to create and format the partition,and didnt know what to do with it and tried to create one of its own, weird but i kinda thought that as i was installing it, but convinced myself that everything was gonna be ok, this is the bad part of when i get bored, and do things like this, but i dont panic, my reaciton is just "oh well" have to reinstall vista, no big deal, guess the patience comes with age thaniks again guys and pardon the typing as i have 3 broken fingers on one of my hands so i dont backspace to fix typos LOL thanks again On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 15:46:58 +0100, "GrahamH" <graham@harrison3951.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >Hi, >Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and formatting XP >didnt like it. There is i believe something different in the structure of >Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not be backward compatible, at >least with 3rd party partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the >difference is but a search on the web will find it. >I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in which >case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and also system files. >This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each other. > >I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and the way i did >it was to create two Primary partitions and format ntfs using paragon hard >disk manager. >I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. >Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. >I also created on the second primary an extended partition and logical drive >and installed XP again for testing software purposes. >So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. >You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and make active >either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. > >Good luck >Graham.... >> >> > >"john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message >news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, >> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using >> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was >> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing >> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this >> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and >> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the >> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, >> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and >> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious >> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what >> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/10/2008 7:42:19 AM |
| From: "GrahamH" [Email Address Protection] |
No problem glad to be of help. Its easy to get tied up in knots when things dont work out, i know i do especially as i get older LOL. I have no formal IT training but self taught from the first computer back in the 1970`s and its hard to keep up when your not working in that environment anymore. I just build & maintain my own pc`s as and when and always do something more complicated than just a `C` drive plain install, lol. This is one of the things i like about the Newsgroups and internet, everyone is so helpful, and giving up there time to help others. Thanks also to the other replies on helpfull web links. Good luck John and all, regards, Graham.... "jpmurph1" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message news:moqt94dekk4au71vv0f0371vlc1qvggvmb@4ax.com... > Thanks all so much now i can sleep LOL but my first thought was what > graham said, xp just didnt like what vista did to create and format > the partition,and didnt know what to do with it and tried to create > one of its own, weird but i kinda thought that as i was installing it, > but convinced myself that everything was gonna be ok, this is the bad > part of when i get bored, and do things like this, but i dont panic, > my reaciton is just "oh well" have to reinstall vista, no big deal, > guess the patience comes with age thaniks again guys and pardon the > typing as i have 3 broken fingers on one of my hands so i dont > backspace to fix typos LOL thanks again >doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what >>> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >>> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/15/2008 8:30:25 AM |
| From: "Daave" [Email Address Protection] |
Now I am thoroughly confused, Timothy! In another post, you listed these links: Here's an explanation of the problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854 Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro: http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529 The multibooters link states: <quote> If you only have Vista on your computer and don't mess with imaging or cloning then you have nothing to worry about. However if you do image or clone your drive or have a dual/multiboot configuration with OSes other than Vista, then there are various serious problems that can arise. For now the best solution is to not let Vista create partitions, but do it with previous Windows OSes or with third-party tools. </quote> Okay. Since it's a very good idea to either image or clone one's hard drive, it seems that using Vista to repartition the hard drive is not a good idea. Furthermore, it states: <quote> When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself beforehand and point the Vista install to that partition. Vista is perfectly happy to follow the standard conventions and I have not seen any issues when everything has been done by the old rules using XP compatible tools. Many current apps that worked with XP can be used with Vista, however many might not install inside Vista but they can be used from inside another OS or boot disk. When there have not been any Vista created partitions on the drives I have successfully used several non-Vista versions of partitioning and imaging/cloning tools. </quote> So, it appears that a tool like Gparted might fit the bill. However, you state that doing so may result in other problems! Or perhaps the idea is to let Gparted partition the drive from the get-go, and *then* install the OSes (that is, not to have it do repartitoning after the fact that Vista had already been installed). Am I correct? In the John Barnett link, he advocates using VistaBootPro. But this involves using Vista to repartition the hard drive. So, if the multibooters link is correct, again, problems could arise when imaging or cloning the hard drive! So, is there anything definitive as to the best practices procedure? "Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message news:%23dFE50k%23IHA.3396@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using > Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes:: > > On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using > Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones > version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted). > Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will Vista's > Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can > download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or you > can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files are > are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php . > Here's some user documentation: > http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm > (For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that > I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I > tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver auto- > matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the > defaults.) > > Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- > created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector > offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can cause > problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions. > > *TimDaniels* > > > "GrahamH" <graham@harrison3951.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message > news:u3avK7i%23IHA.3344@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Hi, >> Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and >> formatting XP didnt like it. There is i believe something different >> in the structure of Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not be >> backward compatible, at least with 3rd party partitoning software. >> Cant rememeber what the difference is but a search on the web will >> find it. >> I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in >> which case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and also >> system files. >> This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each >> other. >> >> I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and the way >> i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format ntfs using >> paragon hard disk manager. >> I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. >> Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. >> I also created on the second primary an extended partition and >> logical drive and installed XP again for testing software purposes. >> So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. >> You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and make >> active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. >> >> Good luck >> Graham.... >>> >>> >> >> "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >>> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista >>> Ultimate, >>> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition >>> using >>> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was >>> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP >>> thing >>> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this >>> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again >>> and >>> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >>> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the >>> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, >>> C,D, >>> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and >>> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious >>> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >>> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing >>> what >>> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >>> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL >> > > |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/15/2008 11:26:54 AM |
| From: "Timothy Daniels" [Email Address Protection] |
The caution I gave was: "Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- created Extended partition, though." As the "multibooters" site explained, Vista can deal with partitions created under the "old rules", but adding to or removing logical drives (i.e. logical partitions) from an Extended partition involves offsets within the Extended partition, and mixing the "rules" by using different partition managers to do so may lead to the apparent "disappearance" of a partition. If you look in the Google archives of this very NG, there are moans by people who say that their precious partition has simply disappeared. So the conservative and safe thing to do would be to do *all* partition management under the same set of rules. And since "restoring" an image of a partition is related in some of its processes to creating a partition, one should do that under the same set of rules that were used to create the original partition. But since Vista can access partitions created under the old rules, my guess is that restoring an image or copying back a clone is safe as long as one is not creating a new logical drive within an Extended partition. Why partitions made by VistaBootPro may not be affected, I don't know. Perhaps it was not tested for creation and deletion of logical drives within an Extended partition that contained Vista-created logical drives. To add to the confusion, there are cloning utilities with recent versions that claim compatibility with Vista new offset rules. BootItNG and Casper are a couple that make that claim. They may or may not work in all scenarios. The safest thing to do would to just use something like Gparted to create all the partitions because all partitioning utilities can deal with the old rules. In the case of my Dell laptop with Vista pre-installed, Vista was on a Primary partition with the old offset, and a proprietary app was on a logical drive in an Extended partition that had the new internal offset. I nuked the entire Extended partition and kept the Primary partition, and I've cloned and restored Vista several times using an old-rules Casper with no problems. If you can't tell whether your pre-installed Vista has the old offset or the new 2,048-sector offset, and you are willing to re-install Vista, I'd say to just re-install Vista in a partition created under the old rules. *TimDaniels* "Daave" wroote: > Now I am thoroughly confused, Timothy! > > In another post, you listed these links: > > Here's an explanation of the problem: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854 > Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning > format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html > Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro: > http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm > Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529 > > The multibooters link states: > > <quote> > If you only have Vista on your computer and don't mess with > imaging or cloning then you have nothing to worry about. However > if you do image or clone your drive or have a dual/multiboot > configuration with OSes other than Vista, then there are various > serious problems that can arise. For now the best solution is to > not let Vista create partitions, but do it with previous Windows > OSes or with third-party tools. > </quote> > > Okay. Since it's a very good idea to either image or clone one's hard drive, > it seems that using Vista to repartition the hard drive is not a good idea. > > Furthermore, it states: > > <quote> > When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself beforehand and > point the Vista install to that partition. Vista is perfectly happy to follow > the standard conventions and I have > not seen any issues when everything has been done by the old > rules using XP compatible tools. Many current apps that worked > with XP can be used with Vista, however many might not install > inside Vista but they can be used from inside another OS or > boot disk. When there have not been any Vista created partitions > on the drives I have successfully used several non-Vista versions > of partitioning and imaging/cloning tools. > </quote> > > So, it appears that a tool like Gparted might fit the bill. However, you state > that doing so may result in other problems! Or perhaps the idea is to let > Gparted partition the drive from the get-go, and *then* install the OSes (that > is, not to have it do repartitoning after the fact that Vista had already been > installed). Am I correct? > > In the John Barnett link, he advocates using VistaBootPro. But this involves > using Vista to repartition the hard drive. So, if the multibooters link is > correct, again, problems could arise when imaging or cloning the hard drive! > > So, is there anything definitive as to the best practices procedure? > > > "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >> Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using >> Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes:: >> >> On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using >> Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones >> version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted). >> Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will Vista's >> Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can >> download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or you >> can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files are >> are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php . >> Here's some user documentation: >> http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm >> (For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that >> I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I >> tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver auto- >> matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the defaults.) >> >> Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- >> created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector >> offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can cause >> problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions. >> >> *TimDaniels* >> >> >> "GrahamH" wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and formatting XP >>> didnt like it. There is i believe something different in the structure of >>> Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not be backward compatible, at >>> least with 3rd party partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the >>> difference is but a search on the web >>> will find it. >>> I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in which >>> case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and >>> also system files. >>> This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each other. >>> >>> I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and >>> the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format >>> ntfs using paragon hard disk manager. >>> I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. >>> Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. >>> I also created on the second primary an extended partition and logical drive >>> and installed XP again for testing software purposes. >>> So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. >>> You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and >>> make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. >>> >>> Good luck >>> Graham.... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message >>> news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >>>> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, >>>> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using >>>> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was >>>> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing >>>> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this >>>> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and >>>> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >>>> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the >>>> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, >>>> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and >>>> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious >>>> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >>>> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what >>>> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >>>> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL >>> >> >> > > |
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| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/15/2008 2:35:45 PM |
| From: "Daave" [Email Address Protection] |
Thanks so much for your explanation; it's starting to make sense to me. :-) The laptop belongs to my sister-in-law. It's an Acer 5100-3357. It came preinstalled with Vista Home Premium, which she detests. I'd like to create a dual-boot system for her with XP Home. This way, she can use XP to her heart's content but still have the option to use Vista. Using Disk Management, I see there are three primary partitions. One is the hidden 8.79 GB hidden recovery partition. Then there is C:, which is the boot drive with Vista (51.65 GB). Finally, there's D:, a 51.36 GB data partition. Since there are no extended partitions, I suppose I could use Vista's partitioning utility. Or Gparted. So, what's your recommendation for her particular setup? "Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message news:OYsV%23Rw$IHA.3964@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > The caution I gave was: > "Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- > created Extended partition, though." > > As the "multibooters" site explained, Vista can deal with partitions > created under the "old rules", but adding to or removing logical > drives (i.e. logical partitions) from an Extended partition involves > offsets within the Extended partition, and mixing the "rules" by > using different partition managers to do so may lead to the apparent > "disappearance" of a partition. If you look in the Google archives > of this very NG, there are moans by people who say that their > precious partition has simply disappeared. So the conservative > and safe thing to do would be to do *all* partition management > under the same set of rules. And since "restoring" an image of > a partition is related in some of its processes to creating a > partition, one should do that under the same set of rules that > were used to create the original partition. But since Vista can > access partitions created under the old rules, my guess is that > restoring an image or copying back a clone is safe as long as one > is not creating a new logical drive within an Extended partition. > Why partitions made by VistaBootPro may not be affected, I > don't know. Perhaps it was not tested for creation and deletion > of logical drives within an Extended partition that contained > Vista-created logical drives. To add to the confusion, there are > cloning utilities with recent versions that claim compatibility with > Vista new offset rules. BootItNG and Casper are a couple that > make that claim. They may or may not work in all scenarios. > The safest thing to do would to just use something like Gparted > to create all the partitions because all partitioning utilities can > deal with the old rules. In the case of my Dell laptop with Vista > pre-installed, Vista was on a Primary partition with the old offset, > and a proprietary app was on a logical drive in an Extended partition > that had the new internal offset. I nuked the entire Extended > partition > and kept the Primary partition, and I've cloned and restored Vista > several times using an old-rules Casper with no problems. If you > can't tell whether your pre-installed Vista has the old offset or the > new 2,048-sector offset, and you are willing to re-install Vista, I'd > say to just re-install Vista in a partition created under the old > rules. > > *TimDaniels* > > "Daave" wroote: >> Now I am thoroughly confused, Timothy! >> >> In another post, you listed these links: >> >> Here's an explanation of the problem: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854 >> Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning >> format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html >> Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro: >> http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm >> Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529 >> >> The multibooters link states: >> >> <quote> >> If you only have Vista on your computer and don't mess with >> imaging or cloning then you have nothing to worry about. However >> if you do image or clone your drive or have a dual/multiboot >> configuration with OSes other than Vista, then there are various >> serious problems that can arise. For now the best solution is to >> not let Vista create partitions, but do it with previous Windows >> OSes or with third-party tools. >> </quote> >> >> Okay. Since it's a very good idea to either image or clone one's hard >> drive, it seems that using Vista to repartition the hard drive is not >> a good idea. >> >> Furthermore, it states: >> >> <quote> >> When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself >> beforehand and point the Vista install to that partition. Vista is >> perfectly happy to follow the standard conventions and I have >> not seen any issues when everything has been done by the old >> rules using XP compatible tools. Many current apps that worked >> with XP can be used with Vista, however many might not install >> inside Vista but they can be used from inside another OS or >> boot disk. When there have not been any Vista created partitions >> on the drives I have successfully used several non-Vista versions >> of partitioning and imaging/cloning tools. >> </quote> >> >> So, it appears that a tool like Gparted might fit the bill. However, >> you state that doing so may result in other problems! Or perhaps the >> idea is to let Gparted partition the drive from the get-go, and >> *then* install the OSes (that is, not to have it do repartitoning >> after the fact that Vista had already been installed). Am I correct? >> >> In the John Barnett link, he advocates using VistaBootPro. But this >> involves using Vista to repartition the hard drive. So, if the >> multibooters link is correct, again, problems could arise when >> imaging or cloning the hard drive! >> >> So, is there anything definitive as to the best practices procedure? >> >> >> "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >>> Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using >>> Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes:: >>> >>> On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using >>> Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones >>> version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted). >>> Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will Vista's >>> Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can >>> download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or you >>> can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files >>> are >>> are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php . >>> Here's some user documentation: >>> http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm >>> (For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that >>> I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I >>> tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver >>> auto- >>> matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the >>> defaults.) >>> >>> Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- >>> created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector >>> offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can >>> cause >>> problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions. >>> >>> *TimDaniels* >>> >>> >>> "GrahamH" wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and >>>> formatting XP didnt like it. There is i believe something different >>>> in the structure of Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not >>>> be backward compatible, at least with 3rd party partitoning >>>> software. Cant rememeber what the difference is but a search on the >>>> web >>>> will find it. >>>> I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in >>>> which case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and >>>> also system files. >>>> This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each >>>> other. >>>> >>>> I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and >>>> the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format >>>> ntfs using paragon hard disk manager. >>>> I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. >>>> Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. >>>> I also created on the second primary an extended partition and >>>> logical drive and installed XP again for testing software purposes. >>>> So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. >>>> You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and >>>> make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. >>>> >>>> Good luck >>>> Graham.... >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message >>>> news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >>>>> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista >>>>> Ultimate, >>>>> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition >>>>> using >>>>> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton >>>>> was >>>>> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP >>>>> thing >>>>> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get >>>>> this >>>>> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again >>>>> and >>>>> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >>>>> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to >>>>> the >>>>> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, >>>>> C,D, >>>>> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, >>>>> and >>>>> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am >>>>> curious >>>>> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >>>>> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing >>>>> what >>>>> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >>>>> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
| Back |
| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/15/2008 11:51:06 PM |
| From: "Timothy Daniels" [Email Address Protection] |
What I would do is get rid of that recovery partition. If it were to be used, it would wipe out any new partitions and obliterate XP. Deleting it would also free up a Primary partition. If Disk Management can't delete it, try Gparted. If Gparted can't do it, change the partition type code to hex 07 using Cute Partition Manager (a free download .iso file to make a live CD). If you have an external hard drive handy, you may also want to clone Vista before deleting the recovery partition, then delete the Vista partition, then copy the Vista clone back into the newly available unallocated space that had been freed up. Either in the process of making a new partition for Vista, or after Vista had been copied back, you could shrink the Vista partition using either Disk Management or Gparted to juggle the relative sizes of the Vista and XP partition. You may want to discuss the uses intended for the large data partition. If your sister doesn't have a lot of video or multi-media files to edit or keep on disk, you may want to copy those current files elsewhere tempor- arily while you adjust the size of the data partition as well. Since you would be working with just Primary partitions, I don't think you'd have any problems using Vista's Disk Management. Gut if you do have Gparted handy, you'll save a *little* bit of space using the old start-of-data offset instead of the larger 2,048-sector offset of Vista. What hasn't been mentioned, yet, in this thread is that Vista and XP will step on each other's restore points. There is a registry hack to get around that, but if your sister just backs up her files religiously, restore points would be superfluous, anyway. Here's more info on that: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 . Here's info on dual-booting Vista and XP with XP installed 2nd and using Vista's bcdedit to adjust Vista's BCD: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 , http://windowssecrets.com/2008/02/14/01-Make-your-computer-dual-boot-Vista-and-XP Here's info on doing the same thing, but using VistaBootPro to adjust Vista's BCD: http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm . Here's info on doing the same thing, but using EasyBCD to adjust Vista's BCD: http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm Good luck! *TimDaniels* "Daave" wrote: > Thanks so much for your explanation; it's starting to make sense to me. :-) > > The laptop belongs to my sister-in-law. It's an Acer 5100-3357. It came > preinstalled with Vista Home Premium, which she detests. I'd like to create a > dual-boot system for her with XP Home. This way, she can use XP to her heart's > content but still have the option to use Vista. Using Disk Management, I see > there are three primary partitions. One is the hidden 8.79 GB hidden recovery > partition. Then there is C:, which is the boot drive with Vista (51.65 GB). > Finally, there's D:, a 51.36 GB data partition. Since there are no extended > partitions, I suppose I could use Vista's partitioning utility. Or Gparted. > So, what's your recommendation for her particular setup? > > > "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >> The caution I gave was: >> "Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- >> created Extended partition, though." >> >> As the "multibooters" site explained, Vista can deal with partitions >> created under the "old rules", but adding to or removing logical >> drives (i.e. logical partitions) from an Extended partition involves >> offsets within the Extended partition, and mixing the "rules" by >> using different partition managers to do so may lead to the apparent >> "disappearance" of a partition. If you look in the Google archives >> of this very NG, there are moans by people who say that their >> precious partition has simply disappeared. So the conservative >> and safe thing to do would be to do *all* partition management >> under the same set of rules. And since "restoring" an image of >> a partition is related in some of its processes to creating a >> partition, one should do that under the same set of rules that >> were used to create the original partition. But since Vista can >> access partitions created under the old rules, my guess is that >> restoring an image or copying back a clone is safe as long as one >> is not creating a new logical drive within an Extended partition. >> Why partitions made by VistaBootPro may not be affected, I >> don't know. Perhaps it was not tested for creation and deletion >> of logical drives within an Extended partition that contained >> Vista-created logical drives. To add to the confusion, there are >> cloning utilities with recent versions that claim compatibility with >> Vista new offset rules. BootItNG and Casper are a couple that >> make that claim. They may or may not work in all scenarios. >> The safest thing to do would to just use something like Gparted >> to create all the partitions because all partitioning utilities can >> deal with the old rules. In the case of my Dell laptop with Vista >> pre-installed, Vista was on a Primary partition with the old offset, >> and a proprietary app was on a logical drive in an Extended partition >> that had the new internal offset. I nuked the entire Extended partition >> and kept the Primary partition, and I've cloned and restored Vista >> several times using an old-rules Casper with no problems. If you >> can't tell whether your pre-installed Vista has the old offset or the >> new 2,048-sector offset, and you are willing to re-install Vista, I'd >> say to just re-install Vista in a partition created under the old rules. >> >> *TimDaniels* >> >> "Daave" wroote: >>> Now I am thoroughly confused, Timothy! >>> >>> In another post, you listed these links: >>> >>> Here's an explanation of the problem: >>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854 >>> Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning >>> format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html >>> Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro: >>> http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm >>> Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command: >>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529 >>> >>> The multibooters link states: >>> >>> <quote> >>> If you only have Vista on your computer and don't mess with >>> imaging or cloning then you have nothing to worry about. However >>> if you do image or clone your drive or have a dual/multiboot >>> configuration with OSes other than Vista, then there are various >>> serious problems that can arise. For now the best solution is to >>> not let Vista create partitions, but do it with previous Windows >>> OSes or with third-party tools. >>> </quote> >>> >>> Okay. Since it's a very good idea to either image or clone one's hard drive, >>> it seems that using Vista to repartition the hard drive is not a good idea. >>> >>> Furthermore, it states: >>> >>> <quote> >>> When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself beforehand >>> and point the Vista install to that partition. Vista is perfectly happy to >>> follow the standard conventions and I have >>> not seen any issues when everything has been done by the old >>> rules using XP compatible tools. Many current apps that worked >>> with XP can be used with Vista, however many might not install >>> inside Vista but they can be used from inside another OS or >>> boot disk. When there have not been any Vista created partitions >>> on the drives I have successfully used several non-Vista versions >>> of partitioning and imaging/cloning tools. >>> </quote> >>> >>> So, it appears that a tool like Gparted might fit the bill. However, you >>> state that doing so may result in other problems! Or perhaps the idea is to >>> let Gparted partition the drive from the get-go, and *then* install the OSes >>> (that is, not to have it do repartitoning after the fact that Vista had >>> already been installed). Am I correct? >>> >>> In the John Barnett link, he advocates using VistaBootPro. But this involves >>> using Vista to repartition the hard drive. So, if the multibooters link is >>> correct, again, problems could arise when imaging or cloning the hard drive! >>> >>> So, is there anything definitive as to the best practices procedure? >>> >>> >>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >>>> Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using >>>> Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes:: >>>> >>>> On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using >>>> Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones >>>> version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted). >>>> Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will Vista's >>>> Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can >>>> download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or you >>>> can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files are >>>> are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php . >>>> Here's some user documentation: >>>> http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm >>>> (For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that >>>> I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I >>>> tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver auto- >>>> matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the defaults.) >>>> >>>> Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- >>>> created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector >>>> offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can cause >>>> problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions. >>>> >>>> *TimDaniels* >>>> >>>> >>>> "GrahamH" wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and formatting XP >>>>> didnt like it. There is i believe something different in the structure of >>>>> Vista`s partitioning and formating. It may not be backward compatible, at >>>>> least with 3rd party partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the >>>>> difference is but a search on the web >>>>> will find it. >>>>> I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive in which >>>>> case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and >>>>> also system files. >>>>> This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each other. >>>>> >>>>> I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and >>>>> the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format >>>>> ntfs using paragon hard disk manager. >>>>> I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. >>>>> Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. >>>>> I also created on the second primary an extended partition and logical >>>>> drive and installed XP again for testing software purposes. >>>>> So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. >>>>> You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and >>>>> make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck >>>>> Graham.... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >>>>>> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista Ultimate, >>>>>> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition using >>>>>> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton was >>>>>> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP thing >>>>>> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get this >>>>>> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall again and >>>>>> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair fails >>>>>> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to the >>>>>> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, C,D, >>>>>> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, and >>>>>> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am curious >>>>>> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >>>>>> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not knowing what >>>>>> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help with >>>>>> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
| Back |
| Subject: Re: Dual Boot VIsta Ultimate and XP Home |
| Group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup |
| Date: 8/27/2008 6:47:06 PM |
| From: "Daave" [Email Address Protection] |
Tim, thanks a million for all the info. Since my sister-in-law told me she had no intention of using Vista whatsoever and she is anything but a power user (basically just light Web browsing), I decided to just perform a clean install of XP. However, I am keeping all your pointers becauase in the near future, I intend to dual boot XP and Vista, so thanks once more. -- Dave "Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message news:e9N21x2$IHA.4064@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > What I would do is get rid of that recovery partition. If it were to > be used, it would wipe out any new partitions and obliterate XP. > Deleting it would also free up a Primary partition. If Disk > Management > can't delete it, try Gparted. If Gparted can't do it, change the > partition type code to hex 07 using Cute Partition Manager (a free > download .iso file to make a live CD). If you have an external > hard drive handy, you may also want to clone Vista before deleting > the recovery partition, then delete the Vista partition, then copy the > Vista clone back into the newly available unallocated space that > had been freed up. Either in the process of making a new partition > for Vista, or after Vista had been copied back, you could shrink > the Vista partition using either Disk Management or Gparted to > juggle the relative sizes of the Vista and XP partition. You may want > to discuss the uses intended for the large data partition. If your > sister doesn't have a lot of video or multi-media files to edit or > keep > on disk, you may want to copy those current files elsewhere tempor- > arily while you adjust the size of the data partition as well. Since > you > would be working with just Primary partitions, I don't think you'd > have any problems using Vista's Disk Management. Gut if you do > have Gparted handy, you'll save a *little* bit of space using the old > start-of-data offset instead of the larger 2,048-sector offset of > Vista. > > What hasn't been mentioned, yet, in this thread is that Vista and XP > will step on each other's restore points. There is a registry hack to > get around that, but if your sister just backs up her files > religiously, > restore points would be superfluous, anyway. Here's more info on > that: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 . > > Here's info on dual-booting Vista and XP with XP installed 2nd > and using Vista's bcdedit to adjust Vista's BCD: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 , > http://windowssecrets.com/2008/02/14/01-Make-your-computer-dual-boot-Vista-and-XP > > Here's info on doing the same thing, but using VistaBootPro to > adjust Vista's BCD: > http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm . > > Here's info on doing the same thing, but using EasyBCD to adjust > Vista's BCD: > http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm > > Good luck! > > *TimDaniels* > > > "Daave" wrote: >> Thanks so much for your explanation; it's starting to make sense to >> me. :-) >> >> The laptop belongs to my sister-in-law. It's an Acer 5100-3357. It >> came preinstalled with Vista Home Premium, which she detests. I'd >> like to create a dual-boot system for her with XP Home. This way, she >> can use XP to her heart's content but still have the option to use >> Vista. Using Disk Management, I see there are three primary >> partitions. One is the hidden 8.79 GB hidden recovery partition. Then >> there is C:, which is the boot drive with Vista (51.65 GB). Finally, >> there's D:, a 51.36 GB data partition. Since there are no extended >> partitions, I suppose I could use Vista's partitioning utility. Or >> Gparted. So, what's your recommendation for her particular setup? >> >> >> "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >>> The caution I gave was: >>> "Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- >>> created Extended partition, though." >>> >>> As the "multibooters" site explained, Vista can deal with partitions >>> created under the "old rules", but adding to or removing logical >>> drives (i.e. logical partitions) from an Extended partition involves >>> offsets within the Extended partition, and mixing the "rules" by >>> using different partition managers to do so may lead to the apparent >>> "disappearance" of a partition. If you look in the Google archives >>> of this very NG, there are moans by people who say that their >>> precious partition has simply disappeared. So the conservative >>> and safe thing to do would be to do *all* partition management >>> under the same set of rules. And since "restoring" an image of >>> a partition is related in some of its processes to creating a >>> partition, one should do that under the same set of rules that >>> were used to create the original partition. But since Vista can >>> access partitions created under the old rules, my guess is that >>> restoring an image or copying back a clone is safe as long as one >>> is not creating a new logical drive within an Extended partition. >>> Why partitions made by VistaBootPro may not be affected, I >>> don't know. Perhaps it was not tested for creation and deletion >>> of logical drives within an Extended partition that contained >>> Vista-created logical drives. To add to the confusion, there are >>> cloning utilities with recent versions that claim compatibility with >>> Vista new offset rules. BootItNG and Casper are a couple that >>> make that claim. They may or may not work in all scenarios. >>> The safest thing to do would to just use something like Gparted >>> to create all the partitions because all partitioning utilities can >>> deal with the old rules. In the case of my Dell laptop with Vista >>> pre-installed, Vista was on a Primary partition with the old offset, >>> and a proprietary app was on a logical drive in an Extended >>> partition >>> that had the new internal offset. I nuked the entire Extended >>> partition >>> and kept the Primary partition, and I've cloned and restored Vista >>> several times using an old-rules Casper with no problems. If you >>> can't tell whether your pre-installed Vista has the old offset or >>> the >>> new 2,048-sector offset, and you are willing to re-install Vista, >>> I'd >>> say to just re-install Vista in a partition created under the old >>> rules. >>> >>> *TimDaniels* >>> >>> "Daave" wroote: >>>> Now I am thoroughly confused, Timothy! >>>> >>>> In another post, you listed these links: >>>> >>>> Here's an explanation of the problem: >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931854 >>>> Here's the reference that explaines Vista's new partitioning >>>> format: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html >>>> Here's just one How-To that uses VistaBootPro: >>>> http://vistasupport.mvps.org/install_windows_xp_on_machine_running_vista.htm >>>> Here's a How-To that uses Vista's own "bcdedit" command: >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529 >>>> >>>> The multibooters link states: >>>> >>>> <quote> >>>> If you only have Vista on your computer and don't mess with >>>> imaging or cloning then you have nothing to worry about. However >>>> if you do image or clone your drive or have a dual/multiboot >>>> configuration with OSes other than Vista, then there are various >>>> serious problems that can arise. For now the best solution is to >>>> not let Vista create partitions, but do it with previous Windows >>>> OSes or with third-party tools. >>>> </quote> >>>> >>>> Okay. Since it's a very good idea to either image or clone one's >>>> hard drive, it seems that using Vista to repartition the hard drive >>>> is not a good idea. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, it states: >>>> >>>> <quote> >>>> When installing Vista you should create the partition yourself >>>> beforehand and point the Vista install to that partition. Vista is >>>> perfectly happy to follow the standard conventions and I have >>>> not seen any issues when everything has been done by the old >>>> rules using XP compatible tools. Many current apps that worked >>>> with XP can be used with Vista, however many might not install >>>> inside Vista but they can be used from inside another OS or >>>> boot disk. When there have not been any Vista created partitions >>>> on the drives I have successfully used several non-Vista versions >>>> of partitioning and imaging/cloning tools. >>>> </quote> >>>> >>>> So, it appears that a tool like Gparted might fit the bill. >>>> However, you state that doing so may result in other problems! Or >>>> perhaps the idea is to let Gparted partition the drive from the >>>> get-go, and *then* install the OSes (that is, not to have it do >>>> repartitoning after the fact that Vista had already been >>>> installed). Am I correct? >>>> >>>> In the John Barnett link, he advocates using VistaBootPro. But this >>>> involves using Vista to repartition the hard drive. So, if the >>>> multibooters link is correct, again, problems could arise when >>>> imaging or cloning the hard drive! >>>> >>>> So, is there anything definitive as to the best practices >>>> procedure? >>>> >>>> >>>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote: >>>>> Here's my reply to another posting in this NG on using >>>>> Gparted to create partitions for both Vista and other OSes:: >>>>> >>>>> On my Dell laptop with pre-installed Vista, I had good luck using >>>>> Gparted - a Linux partition manager which runs on a bare-bones >>>>> version of Linux (which disappears when you exit Gparted). >>>>> Gparted will shrink Vista's partition much further than will >>>>> Vista's >>>>> Disk Management, and it's just as intuitive to use. You can >>>>> download a free .zip file to make a live USB stick (as I did) or >>>>> you >>>>> can download a free .iso file to make a live CD. These free files >>>>> are >>>>> are both available from http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php >>>>> . >>>>> Here's some user documentation: >>>>> http://gparted.sourceforge.net/larry/livecd/livecd.htm >>>>> (For the live USB, I take all the defaults at startup, except that >>>>> I choose "1" - for the "Medium" level of expertise - and then I >>>>> tell it NOT to let the startup routine select the graphic driver >>>>> auto- >>>>> matically, but then I accept its selection and the rest of the >>>>> defaults.) >>>>> >>>>> Don't use Gparted to add or delete logical drives to/from a Vista- >>>>> created Extended partition, though. Vista uses a new 2,048-sector >>>>> offset from the beginning of its partitions, and the feature can >>>>> cause >>>>> problems for other partition managers in Extended partitions. >>>>> >>>>> *TimDaniels* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "GrahamH" wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Could be that when you used vista to do the partitioning and >>>>>> formatting XP didnt like it. There is i believe something >>>>>> different in the structure of Vista`s partitioning and formating. >>>>>> It may not be backward compatible, at least with 3rd party >>>>>> partitoning software. Cant rememeber what the difference is but a >>>>>> search on the web >>>>>> will find it. >>>>>> I guess you installed XP on an extended partition/logical drive >>>>>> in which case the mbr would have been overwritten by the o/s and >>>>>> also system files. >>>>>> This is the way i did it, as it then isolates each o/s from each >>>>>> other. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have installed XP home and Vista premium on same drive and >>>>>> the way i did it was to create two Primary partitions and format >>>>>> ntfs using paragon hard disk manager. >>>>>> I installed XP on the second primary and Vista on the first. >>>>>> Just make the partition you want to install O/S on active first. >>>>>> I also created on the second primary an extended partition and >>>>>> logical drive and installed XP again for testing software >>>>>> purposes. >>>>>> So i can boot to Vista / Xp / and Xp test. >>>>>> You need to use a boot manager like paragon that can select and >>>>>> make active either partition depending on o/s selection at boot. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Graham.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "john p murphy" <jm920@comcast.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:t8ip94l7ub6ach921ofse3qcv3rjfnd880@4ax.com... >>>>>>> Ok, so i am bored last weekend, i am presently running Vista >>>>>>> Ultimate, >>>>>>> and figured i would install XP HOme editon, i create a partition >>>>>>> using >>>>>>> vista disk management, format it, put some files on it, partiton >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> just fine, so i put in the xp disk, reboot, does the standard XP >>>>>>> thing >>>>>>> copying windows files, now time to reboot, after reboot, i get >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> message, missing operating system, well i tried to reinstall >>>>>>> again and >>>>>>> again, so i put in the vista dvd, boot, go to repair, repair >>>>>>> fails >>>>>>> miserably, so i just figure, new vista install, so i do, get to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> part to partiton, etc, what i notice is now i have 3 partitions, >>>>>>> C,D, >>>>>>> and an unallocated space, small, so i remove all the partitions, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> just install vista, no problems, running fine now, what i am >>>>>>> curious >>>>>>> about is what the hell just went on,????? years ago, i never had >>>>>>> problems doing dual boots, xp and 98 , its killing me not >>>>>>> knowing what >>>>>>> the hell was going on and what happened?? thanks for any help >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> this, i am losing sleep on this one LOL >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
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