Windows Vista Beta | WinVistaBeta.com - Message | /3GB and /PAE

July 05, 2008  
Subject: /3GB and /PAE
Group: microsoft.public.winternals
Date: 11/2/2007 2:46:03 PM
From: Megan Kielman [Email Address Protection]

I have a Windows 2003 Ent system with 16GB of RAM. I have the /3GB and
/PAE switch enabled. I am running into system resource problems and have
determined that it is because there aren't enough page table entires. I
found the following information from the link
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/library/00284c8d-7a42-40f2-8a01-8de61dccd8c91033.mspx?mfr=true.

Can someone explain what can cause the system to run out of page table
entries before the system attempts to use 16GB of RAM?

----------

PAE X86 and 4GT
4GT is another technology that makes more physical memory available to
user applications. PAE X86 and 4GT can be combined to provide
applications large amounts of virtual memory and provide a significant
performance boost. However, using 4GT reduces the amount of PTEs
available to the kernel, while using PAE X86 dramatically increases the
amount of memory that must be indexed and translated by the memory
manager. This combination will exhaust system kernel space much earlier
than normal. Because of this, the memory manager imposes a virtual
memory limit of 16 GB on a system with both 4GT and PAE X86 enabled.
Even if a system has 32 GB or more of physical memory, if both options
are enabled, only 16 GB of memory will be recognized. Thus, if PAE X86
is enabled on a system with more that 16 GB of physical memory, 4GT
should not be used.

Note

� Even though the memory manager imposes a hard limit of 16 GB when both
4GT and PAE X86 are enabled, it is possible to encounter problems with
lesser amount of memory, such as 8 GB or 12 GB. Therefore, the kernel
should be given as much memory as possible.

--------


I also don't understand the following excerpt:
--------

In a standard configuration (without 4GT), there are typically 80,000 to
140,000 PTEs available. This is reduced to only 40,000 PTEs when using
4GT. The next section describes the implications of this change.
--------

I thought each PTE could map 4KB of memory. If there are typically
140,000 free, then that is only 500+MB. That number seems really low.
What am I missing?

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Subject: Re: /3GB and /PAE
Group: microsoft.public.winternals
Date: 11/2/2007 6:37:25 PM
From: DevilsPGD [Email Address Protection]

In message <O5gAFnZHIHA.284@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl> Megan Kielman
<megan.kielman@gmaildotcom> wrote:

>� Even though the memory manager imposes a hard limit of 16 GB when both
>4GT and PAE X86 are enabled, it is possible to encounter problems with
>lesser amount of memory, such as 8 GB or 12 GB. Therefore, the kernel
>should be given as much memory as possible.

In other words, turn off the /3GB switch.

--
You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than just a kind word.

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Subject: Re: /3GB and /PAE
Group: microsoft.public.winternals
Date: 11/5/2007 3:34:04 AM
From: "Edwin vMierlo [MVP]" [Email Address Protection]



>
> Can someone explain what can cause the system to run out of page table
> entries before the system attempts to use 16GB of RAM?
>

The Kernel uses 2GB of RAM, or 1GB of ram

without /3GB, it uses 2GB of RAM
with the /3GB it uses 1GB of RAM

the /PAE switch allows applications (!!) which are AWE compliant to use
above the 4GB.
But you kernel still runs in 1 or 2 GB....

hope this explains it,
if not, do a searh on google you will find lots of documentation on /PAE and
AWE

rgds,
Edwin.



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Subject: Re: /3GB and /PAE
Group: microsoft.public.winternals
Date: 11/6/2007 4:54:22 PM
From: Megan Kielman [Email Address Protection]

I apologize for not being very clear with my question. I understand what
happens when the /3GB switched is used, what I don't understand is the
following:

--------below taking from technet article-------------------------------

In a standard configuration (without 4GT), there are typically 80,000 to
140,000 PTEs available. This is reduced to only 40,000 PTEs when using
4GT. The next section describes the implications of this change.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought each PTE could map 4KB of memory. If there are typically
140,000 free, then that is only 500+MB. That number seems really low.
What am I missing?


Edwin vMierlo [MVP] wrote:
>> Can someone explain what can cause the system to run out of page table
>> entries before the system attempts to use 16GB of RAM?
>>
>
> The Kernel uses 2GB of RAM, or 1GB of ram
>
> without /3GB, it uses 2GB of RAM
> with the /3GB it uses 1GB of RAM
>
> the /PAE switch allows applications (!!) which are AWE compliant to use
> above the 4GB.
> But you kernel still runs in 1 or 2 GB....
>
> hope this explains it,
> if not, do a searh on google you will find lots of documentation on /PAE and
> AWE
>
> rgds,
> Edwin.
>
>

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